bensebuilt (![[info]](http://l-stat.livejournal.com/img/userinfo.gif){kind=small} bensebuilt) wrote,@ 2005-11-30 12:33:00 |
|
d-series hybrid tranny built and installed (DOHC ZC custom transmission)
holy crap. I reread this old post and I can't believe how cluttered it was. I can't believe that I type this nonsense LESS THAN A YEAR AGO. So I will now rewrite this for a more clear presentation.
Keep in mind that this is all from memory. If you see a few errors, I apologize. I'm just too lazy to review my notes.
If you're into making your honda accelerate faster, I am sure that you've considered swapping out your d-series powered civic for a b-series swap. However b-series prices don't look like they're dropping, because you n00bs keep spending WAY too much money on b16 swaps, etc. And d-series prices are dropping because everyone is going to B-series. So I am sure that you non ex/si folks have heard. GET THAT Dx/CX TRANS OFF AND GET A EX/SI.
So then you start looking at the ratios. Yeah, the ex/si trans is a lot better than the other cx/vx/dx/lx/hx trans. But at the same time the ex/si ratios are worse than the LS transmission which b-series guys stay away from. D-series needs everything you can get to be competitive.
Nevertheless, the civic ex transmission
1st = 3.25
2nd = 1.9 (or 1.909 in y8 form)
3rd = 1.25
4th = 0.909
5th = 0.702
final = 4.25
RPM DROPS
1st -> 2nd = 0.584615385
2nd -> 3rd = 0.657894737
3rd -> 4th = 0.7272
4th -> 5th = 0.772277228
the dohc cable zc trans that was available in japan came with a long final drive but shorter 2-5 gears. Remember, alll 1st gears are the same at 3.25. The cable mainshaft (1st and 2nd) are not direct swaps over to hydro transmissions. But the 3-4-5 can be used =) It is only the jdm dohc zc cable transmission that had these wonderful 2-5 gears. And the USDM 1st gen teg (d16a1) is not a zc so don't even think about trying to use it. It is only the jdm dohc zc cable trans
JDM DOHC ZC Cable Trans ratios
1st = 3.250 (39/12) can't be used in hydro trans easily
2nd = 1.944 (35/18) can't be used in hydro trans easily
3rd = 1.346 (35/26)
4th = 1.033 (31/30)
5th = 0.878 (29/33)
final = 3.888 (70/18) can't be used in hydro trans easily
3rd gear fits fine, but the inner diameter of the zc 4th gear has to be modified to allow clearance for the synchro hub. This link shows you what needs to be modified: http://bensebuilt.livejournal.com/2
If you have access to a 88-91 crx hf or 4speed STD transmission, you can pull the 1.033 3rd gear out one of these and use it as 4th with no modifications.
Here's the ex trans with the zc 3/4/5
1st = 3.250
2nd = 1.900
3rd = 1.346
4th = 1.033
5th = 0.878
final = 4.25
1st -> 2nd = 0.584615385
2nd -> 3rd = 0.708421053
3rd -> 4th = 0.767459138
4th -> 5th = 0.849951597
not only are the gears shorter, but the rpm drops are a bit tigther. :thumbup:
As I am sure that there will be several questions:
Q: Can I use my stock 0.702 5th gear with the zc gears to maintain stock cruising rpm but have better accel in 3/4 gears?
A: Yes, you can. But be forewarned that the gap from 1.033 4th to 0.702 5th is huge and awful and annoying. If this doesn't bother you then go for it.
Q: I have a zc 4th gear and I see that you have to modify it to clear the hydro synchro hub. I can't find a hf/std trans to rob the 3rd gear from, but I can get my hands on a 1.0666 vx/cx 3rd gear, can I use it?
A: Yes, you can. It APPEARS that we can use the 1.0666 cx/vx 3rd gear as 4th in a hydro trans without ANY modification to the inner race. I gave a vx mainshaft gear to Mista Bone for modification and he says that it clears but it's close. We haven't confirmed this but we'll see. KEEP the zc 4th gears of 1.0333 (31/30) far away from your vx 1.0666 (32/30) the 30 tooth gears are close in size but they are not the same. you cannot mix and match them so don't even think about it. If you do get them confused, look at the inner race.
Q: Oh man, that crx hf 5th gear of 0.694 sounds awesome with this setup! Short 1-4 gears for accel and a tall 5th for cruising. THIS SOUNDS SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET!!!
A: Yes, you can run the 0.694 instead of 0.702. But remember it is only 1.1% longer. If you are so hellbent on this and don't feel like using the 0.702. Just run the 0.702 and lie to yourself saying that it is the 0.694. There is no way in hell that you will ever be able to tell a difference unless you REALLY REALLY wanted to.
Q: What mph will my gears end with this setup?
A: I don't know your redline, nor do I know your tire size. Spend 30 seconds of your time and plug in the ratios in a gear calc and see for yourself. http://www.f-body.org/gears is a good one.
Q:When I put my two hybrid shafts together, the ex mainshaft 2nd gear hits the countershaft zc 3rd gear. How are you not having this problem?
A:When the shafts are placed in the clutch housing and the trans case is put on, when you lock the c-clip on the countershaft bearing, this lifts the countershaft up aligning all of the mainshaft and countershaft gears. This is not an issue when fully assembled.
[i]Modified by Bense at 7:25 PM 9/28/2006[/i]
holy crap. I reread this old post and I can't believe how cluttered it was. I can't believe that I type this nonsense LESS THAN A YEAR AGO. So I will now rewrite this for a more clear presentation.
Keep in mind that this is all from memory. If you see a few errors, I apologize. I'm just too lazy to review my notes.
If you're into making your honda accelerate faster, I am sure that you've considered swapping out your d-series powered civic for a b-series swap. However b-series prices don't look like they're dropping, because you n00bs keep spending WAY too much money on b16 swaps, etc. And d-series prices are dropping because everyone is going to B-series. So I am sure that you non ex/si folks have heard. GET THAT Dx/CX TRANS OFF AND GET A EX/SI.
So then you start looking at the ratios. Yeah, the ex/si trans is a lot better than the other cx/vx/dx/lx/hx trans. But at the same time the ex/si ratios are worse than the LS transmission which b-series guys stay away from. D-series needs everything you can get to be competitive.
Nevertheless, the civic ex transmission
1st = 3.25
2nd = 1.9 (or 1.909 in y8 form)
3rd = 1.25
4th = 0.909
5th = 0.702
final = 4.25
RPM DROPS
1st -> 2nd = 0.584615385
2nd -> 3rd = 0.657894737
3rd -> 4th = 0.7272
4th -> 5th = 0.772277228
the dohc cable zc trans that was available in japan came with a long final drive but shorter 2-5 gears. Remember, alll 1st gears are the same at 3.25. The cable mainshaft (1st and 2nd) are not direct swaps over to hydro transmissions. But the 3-4-5 can be used =) It is only the jdm dohc zc cable transmission that had these wonderful 2-5 gears. And the USDM 1st gen teg (d16a1) is not a zc so don't even think about trying to use it. It is only the jdm dohc zc cable trans
JDM DOHC ZC Cable Trans ratios
1st = 3.250 (39/12) can't be used in hydro trans easily
2nd = 1.944 (35/18) can't be used in hydro trans easily
3rd = 1.346 (35/26)
4th = 1.033 (31/30)
5th = 0.878 (29/33)
final = 3.888 (70/18) can't be used in hydro trans easily
3rd gear fits fine, but the inner diameter of the zc 4th gear has to be modified to allow clearance for the synchro hub. This link shows you what needs to be modified: http://bensebuilt.livejournal.com/2
If you have access to a 88-91 crx hf or 4speed STD transmission, you can pull the 1.033 3rd gear out one of these and use it as 4th with no modifications.
Here's the ex trans with the zc 3/4/5
1st = 3.250
2nd = 1.900
3rd = 1.346
4th = 1.033
5th = 0.878
final = 4.25
1st -> 2nd = 0.584615385
2nd -> 3rd = 0.708421053
3rd -> 4th = 0.767459138
4th -> 5th = 0.849951597
not only are the gears shorter, but the rpm drops are a bit tigther. :thumbup:
As I am sure that there will be several questions:
Q: Can I use my stock 0.702 5th gear with the zc gears to maintain stock cruising rpm but have better accel in 3/4 gears?
A: Yes, you can. But be forewarned that the gap from 1.033 4th to 0.702 5th is huge and awful and annoying. If this doesn't bother you then go for it.
Q: I have a zc 4th gear and I see that you have to modify it to clear the hydro synchro hub. I can't find a hf/std trans to rob the 3rd gear from, but I can get my hands on a 1.0666 vx/cx 3rd gear, can I use it?
A: Yes, you can. It APPEARS that we can use the 1.0666 cx/vx 3rd gear as 4th in a hydro trans without ANY modification to the inner race. I gave a vx mainshaft gear to Mista Bone for modification and he says that it clears but it's close. We haven't confirmed this but we'll see. KEEP the zc 4th gears of 1.0333 (31/30) far away from your vx 1.0666 (32/30) the 30 tooth gears are close in size but they are not the same. you cannot mix and match them so don't even think about it. If you do get them confused, look at the inner race.
Q: Oh man, that crx hf 5th gear of 0.694 sounds awesome with this setup! Short 1-4 gears for accel and a tall 5th for cruising. THIS SOUNDS SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET!!!
A: Yes, you can run the 0.694 instead of 0.702. But remember it is only 1.1% longer. If you are so hellbent on this and don't feel like using the 0.702. Just run the 0.702 and lie to yourself saying that it is the 0.694. There is no way in hell that you will ever be able to tell a difference unless you REALLY REALLY wanted to.
Q: What mph will my gears end with this setup?
A: I don't know your redline, nor do I know your tire size. Spend 30 seconds of your time and plug in the ratios in a gear calc and see for yourself. http://www.f-body.org/gears is a good one.
Q:When I put my two hybrid shafts together, the ex mainshaft 2nd gear hits the countershaft zc 3rd gear. How are you not having this problem?
A:When the shafts are placed in the clutch housing and the trans case is put on, when you lock the c-clip on the countershaft bearing, this lifts the countershaft up aligning all of the mainshaft and countershaft gears. This is not an issue when fully assembled.
[i]Modified by Bense at 7:25 PM 9/28/2006[/i]
